Nicholas Calcott (NC): So what did you think of the show?
EL: I was kind of expecting a bit, actually. And I thought the whole scenography… It was done okay… With some of the sort of scrapbooks it was a fairly autobiographical effort. I was hoping… Well, you haven’t seen [the David Lynch show, 'The Air Is On Fire,' that was at Fondation Cartier in 2007] but I was hoping to be surprised by another production of hers like that that wouldn’t [have been] clear from her music.
NC: I dunno, I just didn’t like the little touches like the scrawled love notes to Patti Smith… [The show] just really didn’t mean anything except for one big love note to Patti Smith.
EL: Yeah, but then again you have to think of the original design of this room [with the notes scrawled on the wall] - it was… a guestbook. In a kind of intimate setting.
NC: Right, but if you put it up on the wall it’s a public display. The guestbooks that you’re talking about… They give you the option of looking - They’re not really there to be presented.
EL: But it’s the public’s problem. You could write in big bold letters, ‘Fuck Patti Smith.’
NC: But the fact that they presented this public space in order to… I dunno, the whole show just had this sycophantic tone that was kind of grating to me. Not just the fact that [Patti Smith, who is known primarily for singing and poetry] got the show which one could interpret as being sycophantic, but also all of her little love notes to [among others, Dylan Thomas, Virginia Woolf, Rimbaud, Walt Whitman].
EL: Yeah, and her museum or train tickets presented as holy relics in the museum context seemed like such ‘precious artifacts.’
NC: Patti Smith’s pilgrimage to so-and-so’s grave, Patti Smith’s pilgrimage to… I mean she’s kind of presented like… The whole thing is presented with all of these religious themes. Like there was that crown of thorns…
EL: Yeah, and the crucifix.
NC: There was that video where she pulls a rosary out of her pocket. Part of the reason why Patti Smith’s stuff is so great is because there was always this play between sainthood and utter baseness… She was kind of presented as the patron saint of punk rock and what she was actually singing about, the whole scene at the time, was this gutter drama.
EL: Even back then when she was ‘the holy patron of punk rock,’ alot of people viewed her and the whole production, her business, as being extremely artsy.
NC: Yeah, I think so too. The thing about the show though is that it just ignored that. There’s no… The gutter drama isn’t there, I mean it’s made its way into the institution.
EL: I don’t know… I have to compare it to the David Lynch exhibition. The David Lynch was worthwhile… There was none of his books strewn about, it was not such a blatant personality cult in the atmosphere of the exhibit. And his drawings and stuff and serious painting… Overall, it was kind of worthwhile to have a museum exhibition because through very interesting pieces you could see his universe, his imaginaire… I can’t speak English today. And the logics for making a museum show for someone who’s primarily known as a singer, they were a bit dim. Of course she’s taken a few pictures, done a few drawings, some of them are nice. But… But they also took out the singer dimension - tried to present her as a plasticienne [visual artist] of sorts.
NC: There was some stuff, some singing, like the cover of Nirvana’s ‘Smells Like Teen Spirit’ was played with the video… But you’re right, for the most part there was a total lack…
EL: Right, and I think it would have been cooler if you could have seen some live footage rather than films that someone else made about her. Or perhaps something even more informative, like something to put her in the broader context of the era where she was most active… Overall [the show] was a bit… insubstantial. With this general feeling of a personality cult.
So you notice there’s no mention of the photographs. Well, some of them were actually quite pretty, but the show seemed to be centered around the idea that she makes these polaroids rather than the polaroids themselves. Not a good atmosphere for a show that should be about the photographs and not about the cult of the artist.